82,903
edits
Utopia: Difference between revisions
Jump to navigation
Jump to search
no edit summary
Amwelladmin (talk | contribs) No edit summary Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit |
Amwelladmin (talk | contribs) No edit summary Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit |
||
| Line 22: | Line 22: | ||
===Working definition=== | ===Working definition=== | ||
Actual utopian visions tend to be very vague and light on specifics. We can state general principals easily enough, but if we put too much detail around them, they quickly start | Actual utopian visions tend to be very vague and light on specifics. We can state general principals easily enough, but if we put too much detail around them, they quickly start to self-contradict, or start to resemble ''dystopia''. | ||
===Simplistic/simply stated=== | |||
It needs to be a simply-stated quick fix. It needs to be sellable, graspable and, in broad strokes imaginable from a a great height — if it requires detailed understanding or sophisticated/nuanced exegesis then it will evaporate. | |||
===Plausibly unreachable=== | |||
A large portion of “adherents” need to be able to support and believe in it without having to ''experience'' it or deal with it. So utopias that you can ''never'' get to, or that there are ''practically'' insurmountable barriers to achieving are sociologically powerful. Paradise after death, the promised land , pure free market economics, arguably even pure Communism (there is an argument that mid 20th century Communism was not ''true'' Communism, so can't be blamed on it, but it may have been an system effect — ie an inevitable consequence over time of even a pure implementation of Communism) | |||
Singularity/Simulation hypothesis: enough processing power. (It is coming!) | |||
Also excuses as to why it hasn't yet emerged or how it has been frustrated. | |||
===Forbearance=== | |||
Attaining the utopian state may include an appeal to forbearance/sacrifice/restraint/counter-incentivistic behaviour now — particularly based on simplistic principles — leads to a state of bliss ''for everyone'' later. | |||
If they have a moral angle, or there is a ticket to be earned. | |||
These are quasi religious utopias. Actual religions, actually, effective altruism | |||
What does this state of bliss look like? Quickly becomes incoherent: an aspiration for equality, diversity and fair treatment for the disenfranchised runs into problems because you have to define diversity in a way which means there can be no difference of opinion, because if there is, then there can be no utopia. | What does this state of bliss look like? Quickly becomes incoherent: an aspiration for equality, diversity and fair treatment for the disenfranchised runs into problems because you have to define diversity in a way which means there can be no difference of opinion, because if there is, then there can be no utopia. | ||
| Line 31: | Line 46: | ||
Someone will be dissatisfied with the utopian state. It therefore either leads to a uniform kind of dystopia, or an elusive state we can never quite get to. | Someone will be dissatisfied with the utopian state. It therefore either leads to a uniform kind of dystopia, or an elusive state we can never quite get to. | ||
===Narratisability=== | |||
Even non-religious ones will tend to converge on existing archetypes, mythologies, stories we already know. These help us imagine a hypothetical utopian/dystopian state. | |||
So Skynet/The Matrix are handy archetypes for ai utopianism. | |||
===Partial utopia=== | ===Partial utopia=== | ||
There is a strain of utopianism which provides an ideal world only for a preferred segment of society. Indeed, Thomas Moore's original utopia was like this. | There is a strain of utopianism which provides an ideal world only for a preferred segment of society. Indeed, Thomas Moore's original utopia was like this. | ||